Donald Trump’s Defense Against E. Jean Carrolls Rape

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Photo-Illustration: Intelligencer; Art: Jane Rosenberg/Reuters

As E. Jean Carrolls testimony entered the third and final day Monday in her civil rape trial against Donald Trump, a second trial of sorts emerged that was a dialogue on public persona and private suffering, as well as the cost of -comfort of rape.

The somber proceeding-within-a-proceeding unfolded as Trump attorney Joe Tacopina questioned Carroll about not speaking out or going to authorities, as well as his public comments about the attack. Tacopina, who faced hecklers as she entered the downtown Manhattan federal courthouse today, said she made allegations of other assaults in her memoir and didn’t go to the police about it, either.

Have you reported any of the alleged assaults to the police? Tacopina said on his second day of cross-examination.

No, Carroll said, adding shortly thereafter, Mr. Tacopina, I was born in 1943. I am a member of the Silent Generation, women like me were taught to keep our heads up and not call the police. I’d rather do anything than call the police.

Good morning from Manhattan federal, where the trial of E. Jean Carroll against Trump is entering its fourth day. As the former president’s legal team entered the courtroom, Carroll’s supporters booed them. Coverage via @intelligencer pic.twitter.com/vapKtwcR6e

— Victoria Bekiempis (@vicbekiempis) May 1, 2023

I am ashamed of what happened. I thought it was my fault, Carroll also said. I’m not going to the police. He later questioned Carroll about comments he had made to people that he was fine, the point of which was to lessen his charge. face I’ve always had, Carroll said.

Tacopina also asked about comments he made in a June 2019 interview with Anderson Cooper. Carrolls television appearance came days after an excerpt of his book ran in New York, the first time he publicly accused Trump.

Carroll described the interaction as a fight during his interview with Cooper, pointing out that such an allegation is the definition of rape. Cooper effectively asks Carroll why he didn’t use the word rape.

I was not thrown to the ground and messed with. Which, the word rape carries so many sexual connotations. It’s not it’s not sexual. It just hurts. Just here, Cooper interjects, cutting Carroll off. I think most people think that rape is a violent attack. Not this

I think most people think rape is sexy, but Carroll was in the way. Let’s take a break, Cooper said, as Carroll continued: They think of fantasies.

Now Tacopina grilled Carroll on this comment what does he mean, that people think rape is sexy? I think most people think that rape is sexy because in our culture, we are saturated with entertainment shows that constantly show rapes to get an audience. Game of Thrones, he said, had many rapes and dozens of attempts.

It’s used because it excites people and attracts audiences, Carroll said, making it clear that he doesn’t think it’s sexy. Rape is the most horrible, violent, act that can be committed against a woman or a man.

Later, Tacopinas’ questioning inadvertently proves Carrolls point about rape-centered entertainment. As you’re sitting here right now, you know there’s a Law and Order episode from 2012 that features a woman being raped in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room, right? he asked. Carroll replied, I know, yes. Carroll, for his part, said he never saw the episode, which involved a rape fantasy. Carroll liked Law and Order, but not the Special Victims Unit, saying: Its too violent.

Tacopina also asked about the Carrolls’ television and social media habits. He asked about The Apprentice, a long-running show where contestants competed for the chance to work for Trump. Did Carroll admit he enjoyed the show? I have never seen such a funny competition on television, said Carroll. This is something worth watching.

He then asked about the show’s conclusion where Trump would tell the poor contestants you fired! before booting them. I didn’t watch that, Carroll said, but I watched the competition. Tacopina pressed on Make a Facebook post, you’re a huge all caps Apprentice fan.

Two friends were on The Apprentice, Carroll said, and I wanted to boost The Apprentice. This is a very good television show.

Tacopina also asked about another Facebook post in which Carroll wrote: Would you have sex with Donald Trump for $17,000? (Even if you can A. Give the money to charity and B. close your eyes and tell him not to speak.)

You joked about having sex with Donald Trump?

Yes, Carroll replied.

After Tacopinas’ cross-examination, the Carrolls’ attorney, Michael Ferrarra, asked Caroll to explain some of his comments, leading to the most emotional moments of the days that followed. Ferrara asked questions like: Do you feel there is a right way for someone who has been raped to live? Do you believe there is anything wrong with a rape victim having a happy ending? How do you feel about having a little happiness later in life?

I feel great, Carroll said. That’s what it’s all about, in this courtroom, is to find some happiness.

How, if at all, did filing this lawsuit give you a sense of control? Ferrara said.

“Instead of living with the shame that I always covered up, and living with the feeling that I was the cause of this horrible thing, as I told my story, I started to have a little bit more control,” Carroll said, choking up. And it’s been a long time, and it’s a very satisfying moment for me, to be here, to answer your questions.

Regarding Carrolls comments that he described himself as fabulous, or good, Carroll explained: If anyone on the street came up to me, Id say Im fine, I am fabulous, Carroll said. When someone asks me how I’m doing, I’m more concerned about the person asking. I don’t want to ruin their day. I don’t want to, as they say, unload on them.

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