Keir Starmer: I am against austerity. But we have to be financially disciplined’| Keir Starmer

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Keir Starmer leans on an open newspaper and points to a photo of himself and shadow consultant, Rachel Reeves, holding high-tech rivet guns as they tour a design lab.

“I’ve been asked by a few shadow ministers in the shadow cabinet if this is how we’re going to get them to be fiscally disciplined,” he jokes, before an interview with the Guardian in his constituency office in Camden, north London.

The Labor leader has spent most of the past few days promising how careful he will be with public finances if he ends up in 10th place after the next election. But as he aims to improve Labor’s reputation for economic efficiency, the UK’s cash-starved public services are on the brink of collapse.

Some in his party worry that his pledge not to wave a “big government checkbook” means schools and hospitals won’t get the funding they need. But Starmer, despite his insistence on fiscal prudence, rules out a return to austerity under a Labor government.

“Look, I’ve always made the case against austerity,” he says. I am against austerity. But I know we will have to be financially disciplined.”

While he acknowledges that schools, the NHS, courts and police will all need more funding, every spending commitment will be accounted for in full. He denies that he’s trying to get it both ways. “That’s why we made choices,” he says, citing plans to eliminate non-local tax status to fund training for more nurses and doctors.

Starmer is looking to grow to provide additional funds for public services. “It’s very important to hear our message about fiscal discipline,” he says. “We are going to inherit a really bad situation. The economy has been badly damaged in 13 years of low growth.

Question Rachel [Reeves] I focused on how to develop the economy. If growth in the last 13 years had been at the same rate as the last Labor government, we would have tens of billions for public services without a single penny of tax increase.”

Starmer and Rachel Reeves film as they photograph Labor during a tour in Walthamstow, east London, last year. Photograph: Linda Neilend/The Guardian

He denies that Labor is planning a wealth tax, saying there is “not much room” for increases as overall taxes rise – but admits that dividends and rental income are the “kind of things” he could take into account, not savings or property.

“We never said we were going to tax wealth, we said we needed a fair tax system. That means looking at different forms of taxation that are not so dependent on the wages people make.

“But—and it’s a big ‘but’ in big letters—we have the largest tax burden since the war, and the notion that there’s a lot of room for tax increases is wrong, which is why we’re focused on increasing the economy.”

Starmer’s reform plans alarmed his party. Yet he worries that they “didn’t come in strong enough”. He adds, “I obviously know that if you invest more money in public services it will improve, but I also know that reform will bring about improvements.

“In the NHS, obviously everyone always has the question, ‘Does that mean private? “I’m not shy when it comes to things like waiting lists – we’ll do everything we can to take them down. But the fix I’m talking about goes way beyond that. We’re all living longer. We have to move to a preventive model.”

Another change he wants is devolution, giving people more control over their lives, but he acknowledges that handing power to communities must be accompanied by financing. But Reeves has ruled out giving councils tax-raising powers.

Starmer defends Labor’s decision to use Vote Lea’s “take back control” slogan on devolution plans, and insists Brexiteers can have faith he understands why they voted to leave the EU, despite being one of the biggest advocates of Remain and the referendum The second.

“I’ve always understood this call for change,” he says. “I don’t quarrel with the argument that people need more control in their lives. I’ve obviously campaigned for Remain, but I don’t argue that we have to have the kind of change that many of the people who voted Brexit are calling for European”.

Despite the economic damage of Brexit, Starmer sticks firmly to his position that he will get a better deal from the EU, likely on the belief that moving forward would be electoral suicide. We have left the European Union and there is no reason to go back. But we will improve the deal we got.”

He is equally careful about the smaller boats – emphasizing that more cross-border work is needed to tackle the criminal gangs who traffic people across the canal. He criticizes the broken asylum application processing system, and stresses the need to ensure that existing safe routes are working, particularly from Afghanistan.

Starmer is philosophical about his push for a New Year overshadowed by the royal psychological drama over Prince Harry’s book, saying last week’s speech was just the last stepping stone in preparing for government.

“I haven’t read Harry’s articles other than what the Guardian has come up with,” he says. “Obviously this is getting attention, of course it is. But this wasn’t a one-off speech, it was stating what we’re going to do in 2023.

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Impatience for change is evident. The public is tired of being asked to suck it up. They want hope and reassurance that change is possible and that change is coming.”

Despite the media firestorm surrounding Harry, Starmer refuses to comment directly, simply saying, “I still don’t think delving into matters of the royal family is where politicians should be.”

People get impatient for change when you’ve had 13 years of failure. But we have to build the foundation for that.

Starmer, who is approaching three years as opposition leader, has big plans for this year. He feels that, having transformed Labor since the days of Jeremy Corbyn and attacked the government’s failures over the past year, he has made his party a hearing.

“We have worked hard to transform the party, and we have done hard work to expose the Tories as unfit to govern. As we head into the new year we are not content with what we have achieved, we carry on. We have made the case for a bold and reform Labor government.”

But what would that government look like? Starmer has faced criticism for not yet defining what Labor will do with power. “Look, of course people are impatient for change when you’ve had 13 years of failure. But we have to build the foundation for that.”

He wants to “reply nicely” to the idea that Labor has not already laid out any policies – the biggest to date is a green investment commitment of £28bn a year – but admits the party needs to “build” on those they have already put forward. .

Starmer will lay out more policy details over the next three months, saying Labor is doing an “enormous amount of work” to prepare for government, and by this time next year everyone will know exactly what they’re going to do in power.

“There were a lot of people urging me from day one: put your plan to the government. I resisted because I knew we could only do it if we got to this point.” But he does not like complacency, and at every shadow cabinet meeting he says the party must fight as if it is five points behind in the polls, rather than 20 ahead.

He confirms that Labor will receive a 1997-style pledge ticket in the run-up to the next election. “Yeah, I want to make it clear while running that if you vote Labor you get ABCDE or whatever.” The statement would be “short and sharp” and “tell a story about the country’s future.”

Is the Labor Party ready for the government? He immediately replied, “Yes,” adding that his party had gone through a “shift in mentality” from opposition to government-in-waiting. Shadow ministers receive training from the Institute of Government and Starmer talks regularly with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

He also gets advice from leaders of Labor’s overseas sister parties who recently won elections, including German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. US aides have taken notice in the medium term. “By the time we have that election, we need the best campaign team Labor has ever seen,” says Starmer.

Will he welcome back the great labor monsters from the past? Douglas Alexander is a former Cabinet Minister trying to become an MP. Starmer says he would be “very relaxed” about David Miliband, once tipped as the next Labor occupant of Number 10, to return to the fold.

“Of course I am keen to use whatever expertise is out there,” he says. “There are good people in the past who want to run again. But there are really brilliant people in the future, too.”

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