Trump faces a series of new legal challenges and Republican criticism

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Yamiche Alcindor: Meanwhile, it’s been a tough week for former President Donald Trump with a host of legal challenges. On Tuesday, Trump’s real estate company was found guilty of tax evasion. On Wednesday, The Washington Post first revealed that additional documents marked classified had recently been found at a Florida storage facility used by Trump. And then that evening, a Democrat Bennie Thompson, chairman of the Jan. 6 committee, said the committee was considering sending the DOJ criminal referrals for Trump and others he had investigated.

Meanwhile, after Trump called for the suspension of the US Constitution, many GOP members sharply criticized him.

Mike Pence, Former U.S. Vice President: I think anyone who holds public office, anyone who aspires to hold public office or to hold public office again should make it clear that they will support and defend the States Constitution -United.

Yamiche Alcindor: It was, of course, former Vice President Mike Pence. So, Josh, it’s really – you’re part of the show to break it all down for us. What holds you back when you think about all these different legal challenges? What’s the biggest takeaway this week?

Josh Gerstein: Well, my takeaway is that there are things going on around Trump that, if they continued with any other president, just part of this story, would be huge. But somehow, amidst this maelstrom of legal issues he’s facing, things don’t get as much attention.

I think the biggest threat he faces is the stream of former advisers and officials appearing before grand juries in Washington and in Atlanta, the Fulton County grand jury there, to testify both on the issue of the Mar-a-Lago document here in Washington, this grand jury, as well as the broader issue of efforts to undermine the 2020 election.

And every appearance doesn’t get much attention, but it’s a big deal for a former White House attorney, like Pat Cipollone, to come before the federal grand jury and, we presume, testify against his former boss, although we don’t know exactly what was said behind closed doors. For someone like Stephen Miller, everyone knows what a close adviser to Stephen Miller was, basically President Trump’s right-hand man, also appearing before the federal grand jury in Washington. So when the president — the former president sees things like that, I think that’s what has to concern him the most. Although, as you point out, there’s a lot of other bad news he’s received on the legal side, especially his company being convicted of criminal tax evasion in New York.

Yamiche Alcindor: Well, I want to ask you about that. What is the practical impact? What is the meaning of this?

Josh Gerstein: Well, I think it could be important in a number of different ways. One is that sometimes there are covenants and so on when they get these big $100 million or $150 million loans on their real estate properties from some kind of good conduct, just like you might have a contract who says that an individual must behave, the same goes for a company. And if they’ve been convicted of a crime, that could be a problem for them. It is also possible that they will lose some contracts.

And then remember, Tish James, the Attorney General over there in New York, is continuing this kind of effort to basically put the Trump organization in what I think amounts to a form of receivership. And the fact that they’re convicted of criminal tax evasion certainly helps him get that kind of oversight that could basically unravel Trump’s entire business empire.

Yamiche Alcindor: Marianna, there’s everything Josh just broke down — we’re still glad you’re here, Josh. And then there is of course the January 6 committee. What else do we know about the potential for criminal referrals and what does that say about the direction the committee’s work is taking?

Marianna Sotomayor: Yes. That’s pretty significant because the chairman, Bennie Thompson, said months ago that we were probably not going to do criminal referrals at this time. Other members of the committee said that there was still an opportunity to discuss it.

The fact that they come out and say this is going to happen means that they could have found something during their investigation over the past two months. We no longer know who they have targeted, the number of critical referrals they will make, but that may happen soon because this committee is coming to an end. It is a Republican majority. McCarthy said he would disband this committee, as it is. And the committee is preparing to publish its final report probably a few days before Christmas.

Yamiche Alcindor: We all appreciate that.

Marianna Sotomayor: I know. We really do. We can’t turn off our brains yet. And they’ll probably also do a public presentation at that time. But when it comes to the Christmas holidays, it’s unclear how many people will be tuning in.

Yamiche Alcindor: And what are you hearing in the White House and what are they maybe saying behind closed doors about all these legal issues, especially for Trump, obviously, who is running for president again?

Laura Barron-Lopez: I mean, the White House considered their streak over the past few months to be a really good streak. And they are very aware that the past month has not been very good for former President Trump. I mean, publicly, they’re very careful, as you know, not to comment on not just the January 6 investigation but the broader investigations, really trying to show that they’re letting AG Garland be completely independent, as well than the other surveys that are going on.

You know, they speak out, and they did it recently, the White House did it this week, when they saw the former president say the Constitution should be terminated. And we know that President Biden, because he has given speeches and met with historians in private, views what happened on January 6 as an all-out attack on the Constitution and the democratic electoral process. And so they will continue to denounce this even if they do not engage in the investigations.

Yamiche Alcindor: And, Josh, tell me what your reporting says about the DOJ possibly receiving these criminal referrals and how they could incorporate all the information, transcripts and other things that the January 6 committee hands them.

Josh Gerstein: Well, they definitely said they wanted to get all of this material that the Chamber has been developing and look at it closely. I don’t know if they think there will be bombshells that will lead directly to criminal charges or the possibility of criminal charges that prosecutors aren’t considering right now. But one thing you want to do if you’re considering bringing a criminal case, especially against a former president of the United States, is to test the pressure. So you need to look at all the testimonials that different people have given in different places and make sure there is not something you are missing.

I think all of this goes hand in hand with the feeling that this legal problem for Trump and his potential criminal exposure is really escalating in the early months of next year when they brought in Jack Smith to be the special adviser to oversee both the Mar-a-Lago investigation and election-related investigations. The only watchword that we heard repeatedly from the people at the Department of Justice was that they want to act quickly. There will be no delay. We are not replacing all investigators and all prosecutors. We bring that extra layer of what is supposed to be a form of independence within the department. But it won’t be like the Mueller investigation where we hire 18 prosecutors and hire a whole new team of FBI agents.

Yamiche Alcindor: And I’m also curious about the minute we have left. The DOJ also subpoenaed Trump’s communications for his campaign communications, election officials in three states. It’s Arizona, Michigan and Wisconsin. What’s the significance of that with all these other things going on?

Josh Gerstein: Well, what was fascinating about this subpoena is that they listed 19 different people. You have people like Joe diGenova, Vicky Teonsing, lawyers who have worked with the president, people who have worked on the presidential campaign. And they’re asking election officials in those states for all of their communications, emails, any other records of interactions, because one of these grand juries that the special counsel is overseeing is looking at, we think if there was a conspiracy to interfere with the election results and the certification of election results in 2020.

And that, I think, shows how quickly and aggressively the investigators are moving so that they can be at some sort of decision point maybe by, say, February of next year. And if there’s going to be any charges here, I think there’s a feeling in the Justice Department that it better happen as soon as possible before we get into – really the throes of the 2024 presidential race.

Yamiche Alcindor: Yes. Well, certainly, all the things that we’re going to continue to watch, are definitely going to bring you back, Josh, because we’re going to continue to resolve all these legal challenges.

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