A conversation between Glenn Loury and Heather Mac Donald – Why Evolution is Real

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Glenn Loury now calls himself a “conservative” (I think he said for a while that he was a liberal), and of course Heather Mac Donald, infamous among ideological authorities, is a senior fellow of the conservative Manhattan Institute. Does that mean I shouldn’t put up this 100 minute video? I don’t think so, because this is the kind of conversation involving the tradeoff between merit and ethnic diversity that we need to hear, even if we oppose Mac Donald’s views. (Remember Mill’s arguments in On Liberty for listening to such discussions.) I bet many people are concerned about whether DEI initiatives will undermine quality, especially in fields like medicine. It does us no good to sweep our thoughts under the rug; we should be able to air them, and discuss them, without fear of being tarred or slurred as bigots.

The occasion for this discussion, I think, is because two weeks ago Mac Donald released his latest book, When Race Trumps Merit: How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives. I’ve read a few of Mac Donald’s books, and he’s become famous and demonized because he deals with issues that people may not want to discuss or would rather not discuss.

This conversation is also relevant to our recent paper (Loury and 28 other people co-authored), In Defense of Merit in Science. Mac Donaldand Loury, I do not believe that merit should be sacrificed to equity. I, however, am one of the authors of our paper who thinks that at least some form of affirmative action should still be practiced in college admissions (but probably not in medical school admissions).

Note that Loury “pushes back” at some points, but he may just be playing devil’s advocate or trying to clarify what Mac Donald is saying. At 34:35, Loury proposed his own solution to the problems of inequality. which involves tasks that are more difficult than affirmative action.

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